Kobe ain’t Like Mike

My latest for Time.com is a story on Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan. Not only do I note that Jordan was more productive than Kobe (a position I think isn’t very controversial) I also note the difference between the two is quite large. And I go on to note that Kobe also has done less in his career than a number of other shooting guards.

What I don’t mention is that after five games this year, Kobe is the least productive player on the Lakers. Yes, Kobe is not off to a great start in 2014-15.

– DJ

11 Responses to "Kobe ain’t Like Mike"

Nathan Lazarus says:

November 6, 2014 at 1:11 pm

Arturo already made this joke, but Kobe now is looking a lot like Jordan with the Wizards.
Mr. Tim says:

November 8, 2014 at 5:48 am

Your stats actually have convinced me that the difference between Jordan and Kobe was a little larger than I had originally thought. As a Detroiter and former Jordan hater, I still have to respect what he brought. BUT, I think you are a little too hard on Kobe. You mention that Reggie Miller and Ray Allen have better stats, but I am hard-pressed to believe they were better than Kobe. Kobe still has 5 ships, which puts him above most, in my mind. Yes, he shoots a lot, but he had intangibles that are probably impossible to measure. Even though he shot a lot, he seemed to instill fear in his opponents and opposing fans. That should account for something toward Kobe’s overall greatness. For some reason, I used to fear that Kobe will hit the “dagger” shot, even though he went 0 for 8.
XavierQ says:

November 9, 2014 at 8:57 am

Mr. Tim, the problem is that you’re still talking in subjective terms (rings, reputation for clutchness, etc.). Statistically, Reggie Miller was better than Kobe. That’s not an opinion, that’s looking at the numbers and saying 2 > 1. Kobe had all star and hall of fame big men (Shaq, Pau, Bynum) to help him get rings. Reggie Miller had Rik Smits.

Statistically, Kobe is a poor “clutch” shooter. A 10 second internet search turned up this comparison of “clutch” players from 2000-12: http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/2/29/2832299/lebron-james-kobe-bryant-dwyane-wade-clutch-nba-playoffs-4th-quarter

One of the first things I learned following this site is that when your opinion disagrees with the facts, you don’t dismiss the facts. You examine the evidence and determine why there is a difference. Sometimes you need to look at the facts in a new light but most times, especially with metrics that have been peer reviewed and vetted like Wins Produced, you’re far more likely to need to adjust your opinion.
Andrew Sutton says:

November 9, 2014 at 3:46 pm

I put Kobe in the McGrady, Pierce, Allen, Miller bin of wing players. He ain’t touching Jordan, Wade, Johnson, or even Drexler. Lots of it has to do with playing in LA. The luck of that draft day trade is a big part in his career.
Knicks & Rangers (@lovethoseknicks) says:

November 11, 2014 at 2:10 pm

I enjoyed both your article and Henry Abbot’s (which I had heard about but didn’t read until now).

I’m a huge Mike D’Antoni fan. I think he got a terrible rap in both NY (because of Melo) and in LA (because of Kobe and Magic Johnson). So some of Abbot’s article reinforced some of my intuitive beliefs that Howard did not leave because of MDA and his system. He left because LA was/is a dysfunctional mess with Kobe at the center of the mess.

I’m also taking great satisfaction in LA being horrible again this year despite Kobe returning and the team actually picking up a few decent pieces since last year (Ed Davis in particular). I was growing tried of Magic Johnson’s rants about D’Antoni when it was obvious that over the last 2 years the team was decimated by injury and stocked with “D league” caliber players. Now he’s quiet because he has no one to blame for the defense being terrible and the team being equal or worse despite the signings and return of Kobe.
lovethoseknicks (@lovethoseknicks) says:

November 11, 2014 at 5:25 pm

These debates have two parts.

1. Which player has the greater skill set to work with?
2. Which player uses his skill set more effectively?

Many players that rate higher than Kobe on advanced metrics models are nowhere near him in terms of skill set. Players, fans, and to some extent management/coaches tend to evaluate players strictly in terms of skill sets. That where the divergence of opinion comes from. That’s why every player that has ever played against Kobe will says he’s way better than the metrics say. They know that he can do things that the other players cannot.

The real debate is on all the bad shots Kobe takes. They impact his efficiency. So other players wind up rating higher. But how many of those poor shots are self inflicted poor basketball decisions and how many are because his role on the team is to take some shots that his teammates would be even worse at?

Answer that and you know how good he really is.

In any event, under any circumstances, he’s way below Jordan. Jordan was in the same role, did it way better, and did everything else better too.
Mr. Tim says:

November 11, 2014 at 10:46 pm

Xavier, you bring up some good points. I wonder also what your website would say about Jordan’s clutch performances. What I did learn from your website is that Kobe took the largest volume of clutch shots. Taking the largest volume shows Kobe was not afraid of the spotlight. But, I am convinced that the gap between Jordan and Kobe is wider than I had originally believed.
Cyril Ebarvia says:

November 15, 2014 at 2:55 am

even if kobe has the most complete set of skills he does not use them properly which is why i rate drexler, manu and wade above him
BK says:

November 16, 2014 at 1:26 am

Agreed, having a “skill set” doesn’t make you an effective player. It comes down to this- some actions help you win, some help you lose. Kobe has always done a lot of losing basketball actions and now it’s getting ridiculous.
I think some of the kobe supporters buy into his “not my fault” additude. Even now, people are supporting kobe in his bad performances by blaming his teammates ineptitude. It’s rediculous. When you don’t play defense or offense well you suck. Sorry Kobe lovers
Knicks & Rangers (@lovethoseknicks) says:

November 18, 2014 at 9:36 am

I really wish someone would look at the total percentage of shots taken in the last 5 seconds or so, the average efficiency of those shots relative to all shots, and then somehow normalize the efficiency of every player (in their final rating also) for the impact of taking more or less of those shots than average per minute.

If would could agree that many of the bad shots taken very late in the clock are not self inflicted wounds (poor decisions as opposed to player role), we could adjust for players that do more or less of it than average.
Citizen54 says:

November 18, 2014 at 6:16 pm

Many of those last second shots are the result of Kobe’s unwillingness to pass the ball earlier in the shot clock. Also Jordan took a lot of last second shots too. Stop making excuses for Kobe.

Comments are closed.

November 2014
M	T	W	T	F	S	S
« Oct				Dec »
					1	2
3	4	5	6	7	8	9
10	11	12	13	14	15	16
17	18	19	20	21	22	23
24	25	26	27	28	29	30

Share this: