Is Derrick Rose better than Chris Paul?

Editor’s Note: For those of you looking for Wins Produced Numbers for this year you need to look no further than The NBA Geek. You can find a plethora of easy to look through stats here: NBA Geeks – NBA Players

With the player comparison engine it’s also remarkably easy to compare players like say Chris Paul vs. Derrick Rose.

Enjoy!

Rose Has a Long Way to Go Before He Catches Paul

The general consensus in the media seems to be that if Derrick Rose isn’t as good as or better than Chris Paul, he isn’t far off. This is most clearly evidenced by Derrick Rose’s MVP trophy and his spot on the All-NBA First Team last season over Paul, who was named to the Third Team. Of course, in this kind of voting, the media generally only takes two things into account: Team Wins and Points Per Game. Despite the unambiguous reality that basketball is a team game, a great player on a bad team will probably never win an MVP. In addition, a great player who doesn’t score a lot of points probably won’t win either. This of course is due to the Yay! Points! thesis. While Chris Paul probably scores just enough points to be considered for the MVP award, the teams he has been on have never been quite good enough to get him there. Derrick Rose on the other hand was on the team with the best record in the NBA last season and he scored more points than all but three other players. But we know that scoring a lot of points isn’t all there is to being a great player, don’t we? In fact, out of context, a particular player’s points per game or total points is essentially meaningless with respect to that player’s contribution to his team’s winning percentage. Shooting efficiently, creating more possessions to give one’s team more opportunities, and taking care of the basketball in order to limit the opponent’s opportunities are much more important. So how do Rose and Paul stack up against the average point guard in important aspects of the game over each player’s career?

Paul vs. Rose in Career Numbers

Player Chris Paul Derrick Rose Average PG
eFG% 0.503 0.488 0.482
FT% 0.853 0.817 0.821
STL48 3.07 1.07 1.86
AST48 12.93 8.67 8.74
TO48 3.20 3.73 3.51
ORB48 0.93 1.33 0.90
DRB48 5.07 3.73 3.86
BLK48 0.13 0.53 0.32
PF48 3.33 2.00 3.45
STL:TO 0.96 0.29 0.53
AST:TO 4.04 2.32 2.49
NetPoss48 5.87 2.40 3.11
PPG! 18.6 20.9 10.2
WP48 0.304 0.113 0.100

The career numbers of the two players are barely even comparable. Paul is above average in almost everything. Rose is not. Rose has shot slightly more efficiently than the average point guard, and that is probably what has kept him above average for his career. But Paul’s numbers are better almost across the board. In particular, Paul’s steal to turnover ratio is over three times higher than Rose’s, Paul has shot much more efficiently, and Paul’s net possessions (a stat that captures all the possessions a player has created for his team minus the possessions he has given up to the opponent) are well over double Rose’s. To put it bluntly, Paul has helped his teams win much more than Rose has helped his. But Rose is still young, and has undeniably improved since his rookie season, so perhaps looking at last season will be more accurate:

Paul vs. Rose in 2010-11

Player Chris Paul Derrick Rose Average PG
eFG% 0.502 0.485 0.482
FT% 0.878 0.905 0.821
STL48 3.15 1.35 1.86
AST48 13.10 9.88 8.74
TO48 2.97 4.41 3.51
ORB48 0.64 1.28 0.90
DRB48 4.84 3.95 3.86
BLK48 0.08 0.81 0.32
PF48 3.28 2.14 3.45
STL:TO 1.06 0.31 0.53
AST:TO 4.41 2.24 2.49
NetPoss48 5.66 2.17 3.11
PPG! 15.9 25.0 10.2
WP48 0.309 0.161 0.100

Rose has improved with respect to free throw percentage, assists, and defensive rebounds. This has been enough to markedly improve his overall production. Indeed, Rose is well above average. However, Rose still struggles noticeably with respect to steals and turnovers. In fact, Rose’s net possessions were lower last season than they have been over his career. Also, Rose has not improved his field goal shooting efficiency. Consequently, Paul was nearly twice as productive as Rose last season.
J.A. Adande used Friday’s Bulls-Clippers game (a small sample size by anyone’s measure) to assert that Rose may now be the best all around point guard in the NBA, and not just “the best player at point guard.” Adande had previously used the latter title to describe Rose because he believed Paul was better at fulfilling the traditional duties of the point guard position. But, Friday’s game aside, Rose has not only failed to fulfill the position’s “traditional duties” as well as Paul, he has failed to perform any of the important duties of a basketball player as well as Paul has. Proponents of Rose can always point to the “eye test” just like they can point to the existence of Bigfoot, ghosts, and the flying spaghetti monster, but the numbers don’t lie. Paul is superior to Rose in the most important aspects of basketball: shooting efficiency, possession creation, and efficient use of possessions. Rose has a long way to go to catch up. He’s still young and can improve. That said, he’ll need to double his performance to match Paul.

Rose’s recent win over Chris Paul was impressive. We know from past experience that a single game may be enough to skew voters in regards to Chris Paul. We’re not sold just yet and it will take many more games from Derrick Rose before we’re ready to declare him better than Chris Paul.

-James

Awesome NBA links

With the season in full swing there’s actually been some pretty cool basketball related blog posts.

Mosi Platt(@MIA_Heat_Index) over at the Miami Heat Index has been keeping busy.

wiLQ(@Exploring_NBA) over at Weakside Awareness has had some real gems including

Patrick Minton(@nbageek) over at the NBA Geek has been on an absolute tear.

Jamie Vann Struth(@JamieVannStruth) over at Raining Buckets has forecasted the 2011-2012 season. Of course Jamie admits there are many things out of his control with his predictions and as such we shouldn’t think of them as written in stone. However there are some cool takeaways based on how the lines currently stand:
  • People are sleeping on Denver and the Clippers. Jamie has them finishing in the top 3 out west.
  • The Hornets will miss Chris Paul and their new young players will not even come close to making up for it.
  • Dallas is nowhere near the contender people are making them out to be. Jamie has them missing the playoffs!

Ben Gulker(@brgulker) at Pistons by the Numbers is back! Sadly the news isn’t happy – it’s insanity to think Pistons will win even 30 games.

In case you missed this: Ian Levy(@HickoryHigh) over at Hickory High compiled a holiday wish list of pretty much every NBA blogger on the net!

If your team is still scrambling to make a move Arturo Galletti(@ArturoGalletti) has a complete breakdown of the NBA Free Agents

Enjoy! And as much time as our talented staff puts into combing the web for awesome basketball content, we have no hope of reading it all. If you see a cool link or post you think we should mention feel free to shout it out in the comments.

-Dre(@NerdNumbers)

 

A Familiar Story Plays Out in Los Angeles

Patrick Minton usually writes on his blog over at The NBA Geek.  Today he brings us a familiar story about how NBA Decision makers think.

Last week, the Los Angeles Lakers attempted to trade Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol for Chris Paul (a third team was involved, but this was the trade from the Laker’s viewpoint).  Since that trade was vetoed, the  ”other” Los Angeles team has reportedly been trying to acquire Chris Paul. The trade has (again, reportedly) reached an impasse because the Clippers are willing to part with only two of the following three pieces/players: Eric Gordon, Eric Bledsoe and/or Minnesota’s first round pick.

In these two stories, we’re seeing the classic story play out.  It’s a story we repeat on the Wages of Wins a lot:

  • Decision makers consistently undervalue efficient scoring and net possessions (i.e. rebounding and “not turning the ball over”)
  • Decision makers overvalue scoring totals
  • Decision makers overvalue draft picks
  • Decision makers tend to ignore the short supply of tall people (or perhaps they just wish it didn’t exist, so they pretend it’s not a problem)

The last point is particularly important.  One generally has to be about 6’8″ or taller to be able to play power forward or center in the NBA.  What most people don’t seem to be aware of is how exceedingly rare this is.  The average American male is about 5’10″.  A person 6’8″ tall is somewhere between 3 and 4 standard deviations from the mean.  What this means is that there are probably less than 100,000 6’8″ men in the entire US, and with each inch this decreases exponentially; there are probably only about 3-4,000 American men that are at least 6’10″, and fewer than 50 are 7’0″ or taller (statistics quoted here).  And I don’t need to explain that only a tiny fraction of those men have the athletic skill necessary to play basketball at all, and an even tinier fraction will have enough skill to play professional ball.  There is a reason that NBA scouts love to say that “You can’t teach a guy how to be tall.”

The upshot of this is that finding a 6’4″ player that shoots the ball very efficiently and doesn’t turn the ball over may not be easy, but it is vastly more difficult to find a 6’10″ person that fits that description, and finding a 7’0″ player that skilled is (statistically speaking) a once-in-a-lifetime event.  Dre brought this up last weak, but these numbers demonstrate that trading both Odom and Gasol for Chris Paul was probably not a “fair deal” for the Lakers (and yes, this means that Dan Gilbert’s whine about the unfairness of it all is unintentionally ironic).

The reverse of this, of course, is that the Clippers are being highly irrational by balking at trading two guards and a draft pick for Chris Paul.  There are three reasons that this confuses me.  First, neither player is tall.  There are plenty of wing players on the free agency market (or available for trade) every year.  It makes no sense to treat either player as a precious commodity.  Second, Eric Gordon is probably going to get paid a lot of money soon.  And that leads me to my third point:  neither player is a particularly good player.

The following table shows the production of Eric Gordon and Eric Bledsoe, along with the average players at their position in 2010-11 (note, all stats are per 48 minutes, and are from the comparison engine at my site The NBA Geek, with the exception of WP48, which I took from the Wins Produced 2011 section of this blog, because my site hasn’t updated the formula yet, but you can read up on it here!):

WP48 PTS REB AST TO BLK STL PF
Bledsoe .006 14.2 5.8 7.5 5.1 0.7 2.4 3.4
Average PG .100 19.8 4.6 8.6 3.5 0.2 1.6 3.3
Gordon .110 28.3 3.7 5.5 3.4 0.4 1.6 2.6
Average SG .100 21.1 5.1 4.0 2.3 0.4 1.5 3.2
FG% 2FG% 3FG% FT% eFG% TS% FTA
Bledsoe 42.4% 47.0% 27.6% 74.4% 45.7% 49.9% 3.5
Average PG 43.2% 47.7% 35.6% 82.5% 47.8% 53.2% 4.8
Gordon 45.0% 48.8% 36.4% 82.5% 50.6% 56.6% 7.9
Average SG 44.0% 48.2% 36.3% 80.1% 49.4% 54.5% 4.6

As we can see, Gordon was above average in assists, personal fouls, getting to the line (which is a consequence of the fact that he shoots a lot), and scoring points (and again, this was not because of his efficiency, which was average, but because he shoots a lot).  He was below average in rebounding and turnovers.  Bledsoe was below average in shooting efficiency, getting to the line, assists, turnovers (badly so) and scoring points (this latter is actually a good thing, if he shot more at this efficiency he’d be even worse).  He was above average only in steals, rebounds and blocks, but didn’t excel in any of them.  Thus, neither player posted an exceptional WP48, and Bledsoe was nowhere near average.

Now let’s take a look at Chris Paul:

WP48 PTS REB AST TO BLK STL PF
Paul .375 21.1 5.4 13.0 2.9 0.1 3.1 3.3
Average PG .100 19.8 4.6 8.6 3.5 0.2 1.6 3.3

Shooting comparison

FG% 2FG% 3FG% FT% eFG% TS% FTA
Paul 46.3% 48.2% 38.8% 87.8% 50.2% 57.8% 6.4
Average PG 43.2% 47.7% 35.6% 82.5% 47.8% 53.2% 4.8

In contrast to Eric Gordon, my opinion of Chris Paul won’t surprise any readers: he was really, really good.  He was above average in every category but blocks and fouls, in many spectacularly so (assists, steals, turnovers).  He is, quite simply, one of the top 5 players in the league.

Finally, there’s the draft pick.  Arturo has broken down the draft before. Benjamin Morris has also written great stuff.  The upshot is that if it isn’t the overall #1 pick, it’s a bit of a crapshoot.   And although Minnesota was terrible, and likely to be so again, it would be foolish to rely on the pick becoming the #1 pick in the draft.  As such, holding on to it as if it were a precious commodity is foolish; one assembles draft picks precisely so that one can use them to nab superstar players!  Why does it matter if you draft the superstar or you trade the pick for one?  It’s the proverbial “two in the bush” fallacy to cling to this pick.

So revisiting: the Clippers don’t want to trade Bledsoe, Gordon, and Minnesota’s first pick (and filler) for Chris Paul (who is a superstar), because Bledsoe “might become a star” and that pick “might become a star”. And presumably because Gordon scores a lot (but just about any NBA guard who takes 17 shots a game would, too).  A better solution might be to trade for Paul and be happy with winning. If the Clippers want higher scoring totals they could just try having Chris Paul and Blake Griffin shoot more.

-Patrick

Best and Worst Means Something Different for Each NBA Team

That's not a basketball!

Dave Berri is the General Manager of the Wages of Wins Network.  He is a Professor of Economics at Southern Utah University, lead author of both “The Wages of Wins” and “Stumbling on Wins”, and past president of the North American Association of Sports Economists.

The Difference in Differential

Not all teams are created equal

In my last post I noted that the NBA has not historically had much competitive balance. This is true when you look at each season.  And it is true when you look at franchises over time.  About half of all NBA teams have never won a title.  Furthermore, when we look at regular-season efficiency differential (offensive efficiency minus defensive efficiency) we see that the story of each team’s best and worst is quite different.

For example, consider the Clippers and the Lakers.  Both teams currently play in the same market.  But outcomes for each team have been quite different.  The Clippers best efficiency differential was 1.94.  That happened in 1974-75 when the Clippers were called the Braves and the team played in Buffalo.  Since 1973-74 (the first year we can calculate efficiency differential in the NBA), the Lakers have bested the 1.94 mark of the Braves in 1974-75 in 29 different seasons.  In other words, the Clippers-Braves at their best would be a very bad season for the Lakers.

A similar story can be told about the San Antonio Spurs and Denver Nuggets.  Both teams were originally part of the ABA.  And one of these teams – and yes, it was the Nuggets – was quite successful in the ABA.  More recently, the Spurs have had quite a bit of success.  As for the Nuggets…

The 2011 NBA Season Team Efficiency Differentials

Pat on the back for a season well done.

The following table reports each team’s efficiency differential in 2010-11.  It also reports how that mark ranks in franchise history.  We see in the last two columns where the 2010-11 result ranks when we consider the best seasons first.  We also see – in the last column – how this last season ranks when we consider the worst seasons first.

As one can see, two teams posted all-time best marks in 2010-11.  The Miami Heat didn’t quite do everything their fans hoped for last year.  But the Heat did lead the NBA in efficiency differential in the regular season.   And the mark posted by the Heat this past season was the best mark in franchise history.  So in that sense, the acquisition of LeBron James and Chris Bosh paid off.

The other team to set a franchise record for efficiency differential was the Denver Nuggets.  Denver’s efficiency differential when Carmelo Anthony was traded was only 2.46.   So the Nuggets managed to set their franchise record because of how the team played without Melo.

One should note – and those familiar with Denver’s history would know this — that the Nuggets did post a better efficiency differential the last two seasons the team played in the ABA.  And at that time – judging by the performance of ABA and NBA teams in exhibition games – the ABA was at least as good as the NBA.  From 1973 to 1975, the ABA and NBA played 96 exhibition games and the ABA team prevailed 62 times.

Once Denver came to the NBA, though, the Nuggets generally struggled.  To put that struggle in perspective, Denver best efficiency differential in the NBA (again, seen in 2010-11) was bested by the Spurs 15 times since 1976, including during this past season.

The Best of Each Team

Surprised?

Once again, each franchise at its best is not at the same level.  To see this point, consider the best marks of each franchise since 1973-74 (see below).

A few items stand out from this list.

  • Only 13 teams led the NBA in efficiency differential the same year where the team posted the franchise best mark.
  • Ten franchises have never reached the 6.0 mark.  In 2010-11, four teams – the Heat, Lakers, Spurs, and Bulls – reached the 6.0 mark.  What we saw from the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers in 2010-11 did not rank near the best mark of these franchises.  In fact, both the Spurs and Lakers have surpassed the 6.0 mark at least 10 times.
  • Like the Nuggets, the Nets posted better marks in the ABA.  Specifically, in 1974-75 the Nets posted a 7.1 differential.  The Nets also won the last ABA title in 1976.  Soon after, though, the Nets sent Dr. J. to the Sixers and the Nets have never been as good again.

The Worst of Each Team

Worst of the worst.

In closing, let me post one last table.  Here are the worst teams in the history of each franchise.  No team posted their franchise worst mark in 2010-11.  Washington, Cleveland, and Charlotte posted their second worst mark this past season.

When we look at this last table we see that the Lakers and Suns – at their worst – are not nearly as bad as other franchises respective low points.  Both of these franchises have posted their worst differential at a level better than -5.00.  Surprisingly, a similar story can be told about the Charlotte Bobcats.   In sum, Charlotte has never been that good.  But so far, the Bobcats have not been as horrible as other franchises. I’m not sure that is much to get excited about.  However, it does sound like something for MJ’s team.

- DJ